Friday, April 21, 2017

Evaluating Livestock Guardian Dog Breeders

Buying Quality, REAL Legitimate LGDs from
Reputation, Honest Breeders & Asking The Right Questions

From caring, integral, experienced, transparent, ethical and excellent - to plagiarizing copycats, fad cash cow breeders, cheapskate ignorant breeders, fraudsters, puppy mills and unproven high risk backyard breeders, my first of a few posts on the state of the state of LGD breeders in the USA - with an upcoming well deserved slap at the current state of many lazy, uninformed LGD customers as well.  What the first time or neophyte LGD buyer needs to look for to buy great and buy smart 
- and avoid a train wreck.  
The first in a series of posts….more to come!

© 2017 Brenda M. Negri
All Rights Reserved
Share this all you want…if you dare!

Last week a renowned and respected Great Pyrenees breeder and a dear friend of mine, quietly added me to a 9000+ members Facebook LGD sales group called "LGD Locator".


I knew it was bad out there, but this group of bad choices on steroids topped all my expectations.  Good God!  It's worse than I even imagined.

She wanted me to see a post by someone in there who had bred a dog she bought, that was bred by a customer of mine who did a 6 breed cross - a Heinz 57 grab bag of 5 breeds - being bred to yet another breed  - oh boy, I saw it alright, and about choked.  But what I also saw in addition to that one disgusting puppies for sale post was enough to turn my stomach and make me just about puke….  Post after post of out of control rampant breeding by people who frankly, have no business breeding LGDs - with crosses of 4, 5 and 6 breeds….bogus crossbreds being passed off as "rare black Pyrenees"(kind of a dead giveaway they are crossbreeding when they raise border collies and Dalmations besides their "speckled black Pyrenees"!), poor looking stock, price cutting, dubious descriptions, someone with a bitch in standing heat frantically looking for a stud dog…and on and on and on!  It was appalling!  My breeder friend private messaged me: "It will make you crazy~!"

No shit!  I'm glad I'm not alone!

LGD breeders - if you can even call some of them that - are springing up like flies on a dead cow all over America now.  As I've whined before, whereas in 2008 you had to actually really hunt down a breeder for LGDs, now, they flood Facebook groups, sale groups, agriculture forums, pet sales websites, Craigslist, newspapers and every country store bulletin board has LGD ads plastered on it.

All because, LGDs have become a fad, and every hobby farmer with a male and female dog out there, thinks it is their destiny to breed them, when it is not.  It's sad, and the dogs and future genetics of great breeds and bloodlines, are being ruined because of rampant indiscriminate puppy mills and backyard binge breeders.  And there's a ton of stupid out there!

For experienced and reputation breeders, these clowns are easy to spot.  Non-transparency is usually their calling card, inexperience is their M.O.; vague websites or Facebook pages that don't even attempt to describe the why, the who or the what.  They are coming up like weeds, claiming to be "breeders" when their young pups aren't even old enough to breed yet.  Dream on…you've got a ton of dues to pay first, assuming your pups make it to breeding age!

Pumping out LGD litters has suddenly become a cavalier game of status for many, who spend a lot of money on imports to impress and drop names and try to win more friends.  Literally, that is the type of person you have now getting into breeding LGDs.  Multiple tattoos and body piercing usually goes with this type; I hate to profile here but they are typically millennial or Gen X era kids; toss in green or pink dyed hair, exotic, hard to find and expensive boutique livestock animals, and you get the picture.  None of them could last 12 hours horseback on the desert in Nevada under the command of a cursing, grizzled tough cow boss, rounding up wild cattle or surviving a minus 30 below blizzard while calving out heifers or lambing out ewes on a huge commercial sheep outfit, but hey, don't tell them that because ya know?  They already know everything.

The worst nouveau LGD breeders/wannabe breeders bad mouth the source of their breeding stock and dogs, and are a sick exercise in hypocrisy as run around and copycat and try to duplicate their mentor breeder's exact bloodlines, down to a "T".  I got those idiots cropping up like baby bunnies at Easter time.

Coffee, tea or milk?  Cigars or cigarettes or Tiparillos?  Kune Kune pigs or Karakachans?  Beagles or Spanish Mastiffs?  Don't ask them WHY they are breeding the LGD breed, because their website won't tell you - hey, it's a FAD, don't you know?  Everyone's doing it….may as well make some quick bucks off it and try to gain more social respectability.  Some of these people never had it to begin with….and are using the breeding of dogs to try to attain it.

There is no stopping the binge breeding of LGDs because it is too easy to do.  Just get a Pyrenees, an Anatolian, and cross them!  $200 on Craigslist - easy as pie, right?

And too many uninformed and frankly ignorant LGD customers keep these bad breeders afloat.

Yes that's right: YOU, the gullible uninformed customer, only add to the problem…because you buy from these clowns!

Ah yes - the current LGD crisis in America (and overseas now, too) is to be blamed on this very thing I'm stuffing down your throats: the blame game stops here.  Right here.  Own up to it, or get out of my way….  In this New World it's suddenly become passé to have expectations, as if that is some sort of disease.  Got news for you: it is the glaring lack of expectations on the part of LGD customers and breeders alike, has contributed to the current crisis of LGD issues today.

Today's overnight, nouveau, city bred, born and raised hobby farmer - often is big on attitude, has next to no humility or conscience; is cavalier to the point of being warped, uber-spoiled, politically correct to the point of nausea; flaunting lemming-like mentalities laced with their inability to think let alone act on their own.

Crowd seekers and followers.  People who you've never heard of, now flaunting imports; defrauders, fakers, status seekers.  They run in gaggles on big Internet forums that typically have names like "Backyard This" or "Backyard That" or  "Paleo Mama" or "Gluten Free Farming".  Fluff.  Surface value.  No depth.

Typically it goes a lot like this:

They are so ashamed of being ignorant that they can't or won't confess that they need help; they are afraid to or refuse to learn from good sources - so they congregate with like souls in cesspools of ignorance and bad info that keeps reproducing because they enable it.  Suck up Admins in mega-LGD and agriculture forums online like the "LGD Project" only fan the flames of stupidity.  And this, folks, is a lot why today's agriculture scene is in partial meltdown mode, why old time, generational ranchers and farmers toss hands in air and shake heads and are filled with loathing and disgust.

What the hell has happened to the human gene pool lately?

Or as another good and respected fellow LGD breeder friend of mine quips:  "You can't fix stupid and there is a lot of stupid out there...".  And boy, is she right...

The sole purpose of this blog post is to try to smarten the typical dumb, ignorant, arrogant LGD customer up in their choice of LGD breeders.  Are you game for it?  Or too full of yourself to admit you don't know squat?  The choice is yours, and yours alone.

Reputable, Ethical, Transparent Dog Breeders all have certain hallmarks that sets them above the rest.  Train your eye and your mind to discern the difference between quality and pure junk.  There are questions you as the potential customer, need to be asking, and you need to not be afraid, or ashamed, to ask them.

But first, let's make sure you know what an LGD is - and is not!


A sign of the ignorant times we are in when I have to even begin this post with this topic.  But I must.

I'm starting off with the simplest of all the facts: you need to buy REAL LGD breeds, or intelligent crosses of only LGD breeds - and stop fantasizing about Pit Bull/Great Pyrenees/Labradors turning out to be the same caliber and quality of a bonafide, real LGD - because they won't be.  Non-LGD breeds are a crap shoot.  Period!

Just look at all the Internet forums with people boasting about everything from their Shetland Sheepdog and French Poodle to Pit Bulls, Collies, Boston Terriers (!) and worse, supposedly "protecting their flocks/herds from predators".

 Of course, the proof of this supposed feat is always missing.

Forums with goofy names like "Backyard This" or "That" seem to attract the biggest number of arrogant clueless know it alls who refuse to listen to any sensible or experienced input from people who know.  So the stupidity proliferates on those forums and because those type of people tend to cling to each other and run in herds, if you will, it's typically a huge study in ignorance on steroids.  My few forays into those forums to try to spread some intelligent material have inevitably been met with hostile reactions and I never last long - it becomes fruitless to try to educate them. I get the occasional private message from some lone intelligent life form thanking me for my valuable input - but that's about it!

Hardly worth my time after awhile; you can't save the world in a world filled with idiots…

Hopefully, you are smarter, and you do not buy into the pap being spewed by ignorant people.  You take advice from trusted, proven sources who can back up their talk with the walk and you only buy REAL LGD breeds or crosses of such from reputable breeders.

Now, to toss a wrench into this mess, be advised, over the past decades some LGD breeds have lost their guarding instinct with livestock because they are too heavily being used and promoted for police and military work.  I've blogged about this in the past.  There are other posts on this blog about this topic - exercise your mind and fingers and go find them and read them.  Those are the breeds you must be particularly cautious with, and that includes those breeds heavily fought in dog fighting sports in their native countries such as those in the Middle East.  BUYER BEWARE.

Again, this is YOUR job to do the work: to research the breed and the breeder you are looking at.

Below is a partial list of REAL Livestock Guardian Breeds.  They are classified as such because in their native countries that is what they do, and/or have done, in many cases for 1000's of years; it is instinct for these breeds - not trained, not hoped for - it's there - period…or it ain't (see above paragraph).  The well bred ones have the genetic blueprint to nurture and protect livestock - not herd it, not chase it, not eat it, not kill it!  EMPHASIS ON WELL BRED!


Great Pyrenees (Pyrenean Mountain Dog)
Akbash (Akbas)
Anatolian Shepherd
Spanish Mastiff (Mastin Espanol)
Tibetan Mastiff (Do-Khyi)
Pyrenean Mastiff (Mastin de los Pirineos)
Turkish Kangal (Kangal Copegi)
Maremma (Il Pastore Maremmano Abruzzese)
Polish Tatra Sheepdog (Polski Owczarek Podhalanski)
Central Asian Ovcharka
Caucasian Asian Ovcharka (CAO)
Bukovina Shepherd
Karakachan (Bulgarian Shepherd Dog)
Sarplaninac (Illyrian Sheepdog)
Tornjak (Hrvatski Ovcar)
South Russian Ovcharka
Armenian Gampr
Carpathian Shepherd
Cao de Gado Transmontano
Estrela Mountain Dog
Central Asian Shepherd
Slovak Cuvac (Slovensky Cuvac)
Sage Koochee
Rafeiro do Alentejo (Portuguese Watch Dog)
Mioritic Sheepdog
Karst Shepherd (Kraski Ovcar)
Greek Sheepdog
Kars Dog

Cao de Castro Laboreiro (Portuguese Cattle Dog)


Just so you know…because too many ignorant people think these breeds guard, too.  They don't.

Border Collie
Australian Kelpie (Kelpie or Barb)
Pembroke Welsh Corgi (Pembroke, Corgi)
Australian Queensland Heeler (Red/Blue Queensland Heeler, Australian Cattle Dog)
Catahoula Leopard Dog (Catahoula Cur, Catahoula Hog Dog)
Black Mouthed Cur
Old English Sheepdog
Australian Shepherd (Aussie)
Belgian Tehurven (Chien de Berger Belge)

Courtesy of Loss Prevention Manuals for Working Dog Liability Insurance program from the American Sheep Industry's Bear Lake Insurance Company, copyright BLIC and Brenda M. Negri

Just a few examples of STUPID crosses by hick, hobby farmer junk breeders, below:

1 year old Great Pyranees/Samoyed mix, about 40-45 pounds  Wanting a loving family (probably no kids under 10). His name is Hero and he would love to live on a farm.  Needs basic obedience training. I adopted him with the understanding that he had previous training but he needs work. Needs a family with at least 1 other medium/large dog who likes to play. He does jump fences. No apartments or small yards.  Comes with collar, harness, some food, bowl, bed, and kennel. Hero needs a home by 4/30
Posted by: LIZZIE POTTER    State: OH   Zip: 45701   Phone: 740-505-

Newfoundland puppies are now 4 weeks old, and they are getting cuter every day!
We love this cross breed (3/4 Newfoundland, 1/4 Great Pyrenees). All the Newfoundland nice, with just the right amount of guard dog. These dogs don't run. Their parents are never confined on the farm, making great companions by day, and livestock guard dogs by night.

We have a huge Great Pyrenees/ Saint Bernard X male puppy available to a loving home. He is going to be big like his father. His father is a massive Great Pyrenees and mom is a huge Saint Bernard. He has been exposed to a variety of different livestock and poultry. He is vet checked, shots, wormed and comes with a written health guarantee. 9 wks old and ready to go! $695 cash firm. Must be able to pick up in Pine City.
Posted by: GREAT PYRENEES/SAINT BERNARD X PUPS    State: MN   Zip: 55051 –

Great Pyrenees/lab mix puppies. They are 4 monthes old and super friendly. My kids love them and play with them everyday! $200 each

Posted by: CHRISTINA FIREZAR    State: MN   Zip: 56588   Phone: 218-


These are the key (by all means not all) questions you need to ask LGD breeders. 

WHY is the breeder breeding dogs? The biggie.  If this is missing from their website, or they can't give you a good reason, keep going….keep shopping.  Like the wannabe who's got two baby-aged Spanish Mastiffs in Bakersfield calling themselves a breeder - uh, wait, hello?  You a breeder?  Yeah, right - you ain't bred nothing yet, darling….  The other day some chip on his shoulder Brangus breeding Texan hit me up for a male Spanish Mastiff so he could breed him to his Anne Latimer Goetz bred female.  Choke - cough…his reason for doing this?  Blatant - so he could cash cow and sell puppies. I sent his ass packing…  If he's now hitting you up for a dog, be warned and send him on his way.

WHO are they?  Background?  History?  Credentials?  Experience?  Considerable or none?  Posing fakes or the real deal?  If they say they've been "in this" for years, can you find proof of that or nothing?  Is there some info on their supposed LGD success they keep pontificating about, or absolutely no info about them at all?  RED FLAG! If they claim to be a dog trainer, can they prove it?  Many can't - it's too easy to crop up on a forum and claim to be someone you never have been, or could be.  I love one of the Backyard forums where theres a poster - under a fake name, of course - who portends to have been breeding and training LGDs for 30 plus years.  Oh, really dear? Is that why absolutely zero - nothing - comes up when I research your supposed "success" online?  I've never heard of her - and guess what?  I'm not the only one.  But by holding court in a forum, she can puff herself up to be more than she is.  Don't fall for that ruse.  Is the person amorphous, vague?  Don't settle for a untruthful person in a dog breeder.  They either is or they ain't, a reputation breeder!  And be warned: if they can't even spell the breed they are selling - steer clear!!!!

WHO and WHERE did they buy their breeding stock dogs from?  Names?  Location?  Is it true or made up?  Nothing on their website?  Or fabricated lies about imports or where they got them from?  Then don't settle for it - if they'll lie about this they will lie about other things and they'll lie to you eventually, too.  Are they bad mouthing the breeder who gave them their start and who they bought all their dogs from? I have this happening to me with a customer who has taken backstabbing to a new level - more on her and her ilk in future posts.  This is obviously stupid on their part, but you'd be surprised how many do this. Big red flag.  "The man who honors his teacher, honors himself".  Reflect on that…..

WHAT are they breeding?  Legitimate LGD breeds and/or crosses of such?  Or are they pumping out bad choices like Border Collies crossed with Great Pyrenees?  Queensland Heelers x Akbash?  Yikes!  Or just cash cowing the Pyenees x Anatolian cross which is quickly overtaking this country it seems, to where I worry there will be no purebred LGD Pyrenees or Anatolians in another decade…. Hear this, imbeciles:  Herding breeds should NEVER be crossed on guardian breeds.  EVER.  It's a crap shoot what you'll come out with.  Do you have time and money to squander on something that high risk?  Refer to LGD list above... Likewise, steer clear of the many, many made up, fake, boutique, bogus breeds like "Spanish Ranch Mastiffs" and "Colorado Mountain Dogs";  "Boz Shepherds" and many others.  Please people, use your brains on this…..assuming you have some.

APPLICATION PROCESS - DO THEY EVEN HAVE ONE?  Do they basically sell to anyone coming along with the money, ala Lois Jordan and Anne Latimer Goetz - who usually want it all up front no less - or do they have a rigorous, detailed screening process (I'll be sharing my application process in my upcoming LGD Customers post)?   Any LGD breeder selling without an application obviously could care less about the dogs and where they go, or a legacy for the breed.  They are in it for the money, pure and simple, and should be avoided like the plague.  Why are you buying from them?  Do you have something to hide and can't bear scrutiny?  Like the near miss sale I almost had of two SM pups to a guy who had ties to dog fighting, which I figured out at the last minute.  Close call!  I turn down 85%+ of my applicants these days for a reason.  Many of them are not fit to own let alone be around one of my dogs.  And no one without the gumption to proudly show me photos of their place, fencing, dogs etc., provide vet and personal references, and answer detailed questions, is going to cut it.  They are hamburger. Don't waste my time.  Most window shopping tire kickers take one look at my application and pee their pants.  Good.  I don't need owners like that for my dogs!

WEBSITE - a study in puppy pimping/milling, and vague smoke and mirrors?  Or more than just "puppies for sale" and "I got another litter to sell!"?  My website, in conjunction with this blog, is light on selling pups, and heavy on education and teaching people the right from wrong with LGDs.  I have a resources page I am continually adding to, and an educational page on the disease EPI.  I have an entire page devoted to telling people WHO I am and WHAT I have done and/or accomplished - which includes besides having worked for law enforcement (which scares off the lowlife applicants, I'm sure), being hired as an expert witness on a high profile Oregon trial involving LGDs, and being a consultant who helps people with their LGD issues and questions, and who was contracted by the American Sheep Industry companies to create and implement their Working Dog Liability Insurance Program.  No, they didn't hire Internet blowhards like Anna Abney, Lewis Ratliff and others, nor did they hire the self anointed "LGD experts" like Jan Dohner and Cat Urbigkit.  They hired ME.  Gosh….wonder why….. (wink)?  It's possibly because I am the "Dirty Harry / Clint Eastwood of LGDs" - take no prisoners, brutally honest and up front and a piranha about owning and running LGDs in an ethical and responsible manner?  Might be.  I'm not in it just to cash cow dogs and produce endless litters of puppies to float my backyard Nigerian Dwarf goat hobby.  I care about the dogs - frankly, more than I care for most people.  My dogs eat before I do and get better health care than me….in other words, they are my passion. Not just a vehicle for someone trying to gain social acceptance and buy their way overnight into fame and "fortune".  It's why I make so many people nervous and put them on edge.  Their lies and endless obfuscation stop at my front door and they don't like that.

HOW do they raise pups?  Hands off or socialized from birth?  Kept in a tiny cage or pen, or allowed to free range and socialize with other dogs (always the preferred method)?  Do they toss them in stock and walk away?  Yikes.  Is there compassion and caring evident or just a "gonna make a quick buck off these pups and dump them at 6 weeks of age" mentality?  Open your eyes and take the rose colored glasses off - and again, use common sense and brains…

DO THEY PROMOTE: LETHAL OR NON LETHAL PREDATOR CONTROL - This is a  huge one for me. I have long advocated the use of non-lethal means to co-exist with predators and strongly disagree with the "SSS" crowd.  And studies are showing: non-lethal means work.  In spades - they can work.  Especially when LGDs who are well bred and raised right, are used right by intelligent owners - emphasis on INTELLIGENT.  That means: running the right kinds of LGDs and running them in the right numbers, and the owner using the right mindset - the mindset I coyly refer to (with a nod to Mr. Miyagi and the world of Zen philosophy), as "No Mind".  I don't advocate buying from a "kill them all" mentality LGD breeder.  LGDs are not meant to be killers of predators.  They are bred to protect, nurture and prevent losses from predators, not kill.

WHAT do they offer with pups?  All vaccinations or just one shot?  You want to deal with a parvo-infected pup and lose it the first week it's home?  One shot only?  Keep going.  No or vague or barely adequate deworming schedule?  Don't even waste your time….  Written health / replacement guarantees?  If none, don't bother.  Will they take the dog/pup back if it does not work out?  Any references, and I don't mean hastily written Facebook accolades - I mean real proof from owners who will vouch for them on the phone or in a private message - anyone can bribe or cajole some ass kissing friends into writing reviews on a Facebook page (precisely why…I don't do it on my own kennel page).  I let my dog's track records and good customers words in 'real life', serve as proof.  What you are looking for is a track record that can be proven of dogs working in livestock - not just air filled words on a blog or website. If no one has heard of that breeder,  then guess what?  There's a reason for that!  Are they making false and bogus claims about being "the only Spanish Mastiff breeder x-raying their dogs and offering written health guarantees (again, another one of my biggest gaffe, bad choice on my part customers currently pulling this stunt and more)? You really want to trust someone like that?

WHERE do they raise the litter of pups?  In the house all the time (a Spanish Mastiff breeder in Wisconsin wrote the book on this one while claiming her pups are raised in livestock - uh, don't think so)?  Note how Lois  Jordan falsely claims her dogs are in livestock "24/7" yet I challenge you to find photos of her pups and dogs in livestock on her website.  Good luck.  There practically are none - and there is a reason for that.  Likewise, I have so many 1000's of photos of my dogs over the years in goats, cattle and sheep, that I have the luxury of switching out photos on my website slide show all the time.  No fake photo ops.  No set ups.  My pups walk the walk.

WHEN do they wean their pups?  Read my prior post on this important subject.

PHOTOS - both parents of the litter on site or no?  Do they claim to raise litters with livestock yet every photo shows lots of cute puppies but no livestock?  Keep shopping - this is one of the biggest ruses out there and too many customers fall for it….  Do you ever see photos of them with livestock or are they always cropped photos on the lawn, inside the house or in a caged pen, with no sheep, goats, cattle, etc.?  This is a biggie and a quick way to sort out the real from the fake.  Dead since 2014 mind you, my Patron's litter mate sister Zoe had her death attributed to "bloat" (many suspect it was EPI related not bloat) on April 25, 2017 - most likely because Lois Jordan read this blog post, and soiled her pants and is frantically doing damage control…well, keep trying dear, you have a long way to go.  Up until now she's been passing Zoe off as being alive - for three years since dead.  More coverup from the woman who wrote the book on it.  Also, note how her dogs are never together.  That's because she wouldn't know a familial, healthy LGD pack if it stared her in the face.  People who have gone to her farm confirm this to me.  Me?  Again, I have literally 1000's of photos of my dogs in livestock because that is what they do and how they live.

HEALTH - are pups and parents healthy? Or are they stunted, sickly, glassy eyed, pot bellied, poor coats, surly, shy, sad, underweight, overly aggressive, sad, etc.  Anyone buying a pup like this deserves to be duped and ripped off.  Are they living in dirt and grime like the pups being raised by one puppy milling Spanish Mastiff breeder in North Carolina who's almost been shut down by authorities for her kennel conditions - yet she keeps selling sickly pups because stupid lazy customers patronize her because she's cheap?  You don't settle for this.  You have better and higher expectations….

OLDER DOGS - How does the breeder treat them if they have any?  Are they ignored like yesterday's news, neglected and worn out and tired and ill-kept?  Do they refuse to take care of them in their sunset years?  Or does the breeder respect their elder dogs and recognize they their age means they require more rest, care and attention and special considerations?  My 5 old timers here (all coming on 9) worked hard and long as youngsters - now, they get to sleep inside at night, are never pushed or expected to work full tilt - even though they still try to - and are given special supplements on their kibble for aged dogs.  Their comfort and mental well being is top of my list.  I let them rest and take it easy, while the youngsters in my pack pick up the slack and work load.  In other words, compassion - not cruelty.

REPUTATION - is it all made up?   Or did they earn it and can they prove it?  Reps are not made in just one or two litters in just two years, folks…it takes many years to build up a credible reputation producing great dogs - I have labored almost 9 years to get where I am at - yet too many Johnny Come Lately hobby breeders think they can dupe people into thinking they are someone they are not, and never were (and in many cases never will be….).  Don't be so gullible to take things at face value - do your homework, buyers.  There's a lot of lying, deceiving wannabe LGD breeders out there these days who don't rate a second look, or your respect - let alone your business!

TRANSPARENCY - are they a case study in fakery, smoke and mirrors, cover ups, lies, half-truths, fabricated BS, gross omissions and denial?  Or are they an open book?  Do they tell you when they have losses or diseases and are they honest about tragedies?  Or do they pretend they never have any? Do they have a "memorial" page on their website that plainly and clearly shows you their deceased dogs (like I have), or do they sprinkle dead dog photos throughout their website in order to make it look like they are still alive, kicking and working, without any reference to them being dead, or a memorial page?  I have news for you kids: no one, absolutely NO ONE who breeds dogs on a serious scale for years goes without any losses, tragedies, sicknesses, etc.  It is how they handle them that counts.  If someone is inferring they never lose any puppies or dogs; if they make fun of someone for losing dogs like they never would or do - then keep shopping: they are liars. Period…

In these sad days of political correctness and creating "safe spaces" - it's so "incorrect" to remind people that there is a right and a wrong way to do things.  There is a right and a wrong with LGDs too!

Below: Big Hat, No Cattle.  Case studies in Ego, Smoke and Mirrors.
A Rogues' Gallery of Bad, Ugly and Just Plain Stupid
LGD Breeders and Self-labeled "Experts"

Lois Jordan - she of the dead dog filled, never updated website and archaic, outdated and mishmash filled blog, currently on the run from several disgruntled customers: her pups have come up with Leptovirus, blindness, chock full of worms, underweight, feverish and such; she is infamous for back to back breeding her young bitches with no rest or breaks between litters.  My first totally overpriced ($2500) SM came from this woman and chased my goats, was surly, too small and not interested in guarding anything; ended up dying from a genetic liver ailment.  Jordan has been booted off of at least two farms and has moved three times in only four years.  Her reputation in the show goat world which she no longer participates in (in spite of what her website would tell you), is about as bad: her goats have come up with Johnes' Disease.   She's backed by and runs with the Lewis Ratliff mafia - that pretty much tells you all you need to know…

More stuff about and/or from Lois Jordan of "Fall Creek Farm" (where she has not lived in years):

Lois Jordan and Fall creek farms should be shut down.

We were planning on keeping a pup from this litter, but decided to import 
another from Spain instead, so we have 1 female puppy available. 
All others were sold prior to birth
Beck Straussner Beautiful girl, to bad her offspring have dysplasia. Will she be getting spayed?

Lois breeding Zoe with no EPI test - twice - and Lepto….yikes Lois, bad choices:

Unfortunately, both Zoe and Aislinn lost their puppies. It seems that when we 
moved to the new farm, the resident wildlife shared some of their issues (leptospirosis)
before being run off. This can cause reabsorbtion in pregnant dogs. 

Lois Jordan back to back breeding bitches Brisa, Zoe and Aislinn
(Spanish Mastiffs typically come into heat every 7-10 months ):
A litter 2/7/09
(Delilah x Moses)

B litter 1/22/10 
(Delilah x Logan)

C litter 1/25/11
(Aislinn x Logan)

D litter 8/1/11
(Delilah x Logan)

E litter 8/27/12
(Aislinn x Logan)

F litter 5/27/13
(Zoe x Ivan) 
G litter 8/7/13
(Aislinn x Ivan)

H litter 2/10/14
(Brisa x Ivan)

(Delilah x Ivan)

(Zoe x Ivan)

(Brisa x Ivan)

(Brisa x Ivan)
 (Aislinn x Bruno)

  Our 'M' Litter between Aislinn and Hosco de Tierra de Orbigo 
was born 6/19/15 -2 pups, both sold. (Whoa?  Hosco AND Bruno?  On purpose?  Yikes, part II)

POS Award goes hands down to Lizzie Potter.
Let's all text this clown into a mental breakdown.  A Pyrenees x Samoyed cross - this has to take the cake in terms of all time stupidity, and here's this lowlife posting this on the 29th of April and saying the dog "has to go" by the 30th - and you wonder why I blog about this crap????:

1 year old Great Pyranees/Samoyed mix, about 40-45 pounds

Wanting a loving family (probably no kids under 10). His name is Hero and he would love to live on a farm.

Needs basic obedience training. I adopted him with the understanding that he had previous training but he needs work.

Needs a family with at least 1 other medium/large dog who likes to play. He does jump fences. No apartments or small yards.

Comes with collar, harness, some food, bowl, bed, and kennel. Hero needs a home by 4/30

PLEASE TEXT. No calls or emails please. 
Posted by: LIZZIE POTTER    State: OH   Zip: 45701   Phone: 740-505-4698 - See more at:

A link to an "Armenian Gampr x Cattle Dog" re-home in Boston.
What idiotic clown decided that was a cross that would work?
And what idiot would buy it?

Above, more Goetz garbage

Anna Abney
The Hills Have Eyes:  These perpetually back slapping women run in a cluster group gaggle continuously stroking each other's egos and pimping each other's "work".  Above, Anna "Attack Dog" Abney - passing herself off as an LGD "trainer".

Dear readers: Do you see any livestock in that photo?  Where's the chickens, Anna?  Does this look like a pastoral shepherd in her flock on a mountain with a stable, nurturing LGD protecting his charges?  Abney is another "teacher's pet" groupie of author Jan Dohner's who posts Abney's words on a blog she contributes to now and then, as if that's going to give her any credibility…uh…gonna take way more than that, dear.

Tam Mrose
Below:  Typical drivel from "paid dog professional" Tam Mrose.  Another one of Jan Dohner's "sources" for her last book (along with Lois Jordan…no wonder the Spanish  Mastiff chapter was a disaster).  Do you see where I'm going with this? Do you see a pattern here?  Call them the "LGD Mafia" or maybe the label Stepford Wives of the LGD world would be more appropriate...  Mrose, a self-described hunting dog trainer and "behaviorist" ala 'sled dog' disaster making Ray Coppinger, is frequently found out of her league posting every day in "Learning About LGDs" - Anna Abney's self perpetuating Facebook fortress - telling people how to train their LGDs.  Read Tam's not so delightful pronged collar exchange below.  Does this sound like someone who knows dick about LGDs?  And what the hell does she consider "humane", the rack?  Boiling oil?  Pronged collars?  Shock collars?:

Tam Mrose I only read your reply: I am a trainer, I teach people about dogs. I will use any piece of equipment correct for the situation that I am paid to remedy. My methods are humane and based on science. I have used and will continue to use prong collars when it is appropriate. Blanket statements do not account for all eventualities.
Donna Underwood Owens ABSOLUTELY NEVER
Jean Johnson No . If you need one you have other problems (***UNDERSTATEMENT!*****)
Tam Mrose Are you people thinking that a prong collar is a correction device? That is not how they are intended to be used. They do not 'teach' a dog anything. But seriously! ? ! NEVER? other problems? I reiterate, as a paid professional, if I think it is the best equipment for the job I'm gonna use one.

Turkish dog fighter's American pet, Brian Peckinpaugh
keeping dog fighters in America serviced and happy….

Above: Shame on you Louise…I dunno about these Canadians.
Aftermath of a wreck Louise L. caused by poor management of her dogs...

Not So Wonderful Boz breed and it's problems

Stunted SMs from Goetz - and no livestock

Granddaddy of bad LGD advice: Lewis Ratliff and his
Facebook troll filled LGD groups.   So arrogant, paranoid and so desperate he contacted
the American Sheep Industry trying to get me 'fired' from my consulting job -
all it did was give them a huge laugh and ruin his own reputation with the sheep industry.
ASI's infamous response: "We don't get in pissing contests with a snake".  Take that, Lewis.

Skinny, sickly, caged up: more Goetz dogs;
pity these poor undernourished creatures…and these are the caliber
her customers are breeding…there goes the SM in America.

Goetz again.  God forbid….concrete floors - just inexcusable.
Uh, a little on the thin side, below, don't you think?  But of course, we're not
into anorexic dogs like Anna Abney is….
but then she could pass for a Nevada meth tweaker on an Imlay street corner.

Typical stupidity, below.  Bad breeder placed pup with bad home,
no breeder support - the poor dog needs guidance, not this kind of hell:

livestock guardian dog
Daily update  May 8, 2017

Free livestock guardian dog
Chicken, duck, and lamb killer. About 6 months old.
Google PlusFacebookTwitterFlag as irrelevant

Whoa Nellie, you've got two young sub-yearling puppies and you're already calling
yourself a breeder?  Kiss my ass.  Do you know what it means to pay dues, or are you all flash, cash and dash? Another questionable customer of one of my very worst customers, below:

X rays? Spindler has no OFA certified SM.  I still hold the American record for OFA certification of SM.  Hot air, big ego - but to be expected from someone
who was living in their car until they gold dug themselves a meal ticket
and started breeding dogs and copycatting and stabbing their mentor in the back to gain social acceptability….I know, harsh words, but relax; they are not nearly as bad as the crap she's busy spewing out there about me. Literally mimicking my import bloodlines to the "T" - or trying to - while bad mouthing my dogs while she breeds them.  Hypocrite.  I lack the space here to print the BS letter she hired an attorney to write me threatening to sue me for defamation of character over a year ago. Oh, make my day.  Meanwhile as the above screenshot shows, she practices BS defamation of me. LGD breeders beware: her favorite ruse is stealing other breeders' SM customers and turning them against you.  I've caught her sucking up to Lois Jordan and Anne Goetz puppy owners on Facebook in order to try to finesse her own puppy sales; she went from mass producing 5 and 6 breed LGD cash crop crossbred litters to now trying to pan herself off as a purebred "SM Breeder" after only producing one and only one, purebred SM litter this spring.   Her other dubious 'claim to fame': the "high percentage cross" 3/4 SM.  Talk about prostituting the breed.  Bottom feeder, a user and back stabber, and one of my worst mistakes in placing pups and trying to mentor.  I obviously failed in teaching her any ethics.

Run Anne, Run…  Retrieverman's infamous take down post on Goetz
and her puppy mill and grotesque Neo's.

Crossbred Central in MT - more bogus "Spanish Ranch Mastiffs"

Goetz specialty: sickly looking pup

You really do have to wonder, who is worse:
bad gutter dwelling breeders or the clueless, stupid people who buy from them?

Above: What?  Yeah, right….kiss my ass.

More BS "SM"crosses  from a thankfully out of business former bad breeder in MT

1/8 Anatolian and 1/8 Maremma crosses - grandkids of my Mafia Brothers Pak and Pala, being pawned off as purebred Spanish Mastiffs.  More typical Spindler customers…townie Valley Girl chicks.
Nose rings optional… or pink hair preferred….tattoos mandatory.
The air headed kind of "hobby farmers" that make old time ranchers want to puke...

Guarding sheep - not quite bud...

Akin Tulubas, dog fighter and his Boz

Another Boz

Bad training - yokes - cruel, unnecessary, stupid.
I lost all respect for this woman when she started posting this and photos of her grossly injured dogs from "free range breeding" them.  Who the hell advocates that?
Keep that crap in Canada where you belong, Louise Liebenberg….

Black "Pyreenies?  Huh?
And people are stupid enough to buy this stuff????

Uh, let's see, feral dog - breeds pit bull - half pit bull litter - you're joking, right?

Millennial brat - typical smart ass attitude: 
"No one ever…get in trouble for it tho" - you will after we turn you in:

Of course you have to expect this kind of pap from a girl who dyes her horse's mane pink...

More BS from the "Black Pyrenees" breeder
with major spelling issues…:

Oh sure.  $1400 per pup, and you are who, again?  Nobody you say?  And where's the livestock? Oh, you don't put pups in livestock, that's right!  But you call them LGDs…. Oh, and your
breeding stock came from an infamous puppy mill in the Carolinas?  And you breed Beagles too?
Cough…choke…gag.  Fad dog breeding personified.  Bad choice….

When good goes terribly wrong: another Spindler customer turning crossbreeding into a
muddled mess.  SIX breeds?  Huh?  She also can't seem to make up her mind on the correct percentages of each breed (see conflicting post from her, below).

$200 for a Sar - bad placement /wrong breed for the job.
Increasing and sad.  Sars, Gamprs, Kangals - getting dumped more and more
because owners bit off more than they could chew.  Shakey, untrustworthy breeds
in the wrong hands = train wrecks!

Yeah, ever confused because he can' t decide who or what he is…..
a tragic ending to top Abelgas and Alto Aragon bloodlines - results of a customer
gone bad who is prostituting great bloodlines into 'high percentage' mush,
and this is what you get in the end.  Her selling to people who do this.  NOT acceptable.

The "rare" Black Pyrenees - NOT!  How about Border Collie x Dalmation?

Gotta love the big forum hot shots claiming to have been breeding LGDs for "30 years"
yet lurking under fake names, and when you search for their real one, amazing, how practically
nothing ever comes up - references, proof, nada, zip….

Below: the puppy broker, high priced, questionable stock, probably suckered a breeder in Spain
to using their service to export dogs here. Oh, and they broker other breeds too.  Red flag…



I warned you I'd be taking the gloves off.
I'll be going into more depth in my next post on this subject and
What they all have in common.  And - I'll be posting about LGD CUSTOMERS -
the good, the bad and the ugly, the serious and the cavalier, the lazy and the truthful.

Which one are YOU?

With a nod to fellow blogger Retrieverman:

It’s often said you can tell a lot about a person by who his or her enemies are.
Or to put it another way:
“When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.”
–Jonathan Swift