LGD / Livestock Guardian Dog Siblings Revisited

Another article on running sibling (litter mate) pairs of Livestock Guardian Dogs…..just because, I cannot promote the benefits of litter mates enough.  Particularly when I see self-proclaimed "LGD Experts" whose cadre of sheep-like Facebook followers hangs on their every word, fawning over them when they are making such disturbing statements like this:

"In fact, two pups can be overly focused on each other instead of you or your stock and will often encourage each other to get in trouble as they pass through their troublesome teens. Littermates are especially problematical. Most experts recommend staggering the ages of your LGDs if possible."    --- Jan Dohner

"Most experts".  This is why you don't hear me calling myself an expert.   

These "experts" typically thrive in huge Facebook forums.  What these "experts" typically lack is real life experience, something I have - 60 years worth.  Very few, if any of them, I will venture, live full time on a ranch in a pack of twenty or so 200 pound dogs, but I do. And by keeping my mind and eyes open, I learn and see things every day.  

One of the biggest lessons has been the necessity to respect these great dogs, and one way of showing that respect, is allowing and promoting pack life.  That can be accomplished by running and supporting sibling pairs.  It is something that is really quite easy to do, once you understand these dogs - but few people seem willing to do that.  Especially on these 8,000 member Facebook LGD groups where all the "experts" pontificate - opinionated, harsh and misguided drivel, typically regurgitated from outdated books.  

Why is it if people cannot do something, they immediately have to claim it cannot or should not be done?  When did learning about these dogs turn into a contest of egos? 

Leave your selfish ego at the door when it comes to learning about and from these great dogs.  

It has no place amongst giants.

Here is my latest article for sheep! Magazine on the benefits of sibling LGDs.

Sibling Success!

The Advantages of Littermate Guardian Dogs

Brenda M. Negri

Published in

sheep! Magazine September/October 2015

Copyright 2015 

Have you ever heard dog people talk about “Littermate Syndrome”?  Until about a year ago, I never had.  But I ran across an Internet blog bemoaning the “horrors” of “Littermate Syndrome” in sibling pups. The writer warmed of the many “dangers” of buying sibling pups out of a same litter.   

Perhaps you too, have heard of or read about this purported “syndrome” and you’re curious, confused or wondering if buying littermate LGD pups is a mistake.  Well, don’t fret.  I’m here to to show you the much brighter side of the littermate coin: that is, it can be done, and done well.  In fact, once you’ve tried it you may never settle for just buying a single pup again!

It may help the reader to understand why I am such a proponent of running sibling pairs of LGDs.  First, there are the advantages, all of which I’ve experienced on my ranch and LGD kennel operation:

Advantages:

• Littermate pups are already bonded to one another thus there is no need for introductions
• Two LGDs present a much more formidable obstacle to threats, predators and trespassers than one thus getting protection for your stock much sooner than a solo pup, who alone is quite vulnerable to predators
• Two siblings will back each other up and add to earlier confidence and added security for the pup; less stress on the dog means a healthier dog that lives and works longer for you
• You get all the puppyhood training and ‘ups and downs’ over with at once, instead of stretching it out longer for two separately purchased pups over longer period of time
• You can run two males, two females, or one of each sex together as sibling pairs
• You respect the dog’s natural preference for pack life and company, and will find this adds to the dog’s contentment and stability

Negatives:  

There are people who decry running littermate pairs as a “disaster”, and there are a lot of fallacies floating around out there about running siblings.  You’ll hear and read things like:

• The pups will only bond to each other, and not the livestock
• They will teach each other ‘bad’ habits 
• They will never work together well and only play 
• They will do nothing but fight each other all the time
• One will work while the other just sleeps

Perhaps you have heard some of those negatives before. But in my personal experience, there is no “downside” because none of the aforementioned “negatives”  have ever happened on my ranch.  And who am I to issue such a bold statement? Someone with a lot of sibling experience.  How much experience?  More than most: fifteen (yes, 15) siblings.  If owning and running sibling pairs was the disaster so many paint it to be I would have stopped after the first two sets I brought here (three Great Pyrenees siblings, then two Maremma/Anatolian brothers).  I went on to keep and raise a dozen-plus siblings more.  Not in one instance did I ever encounter what people call “littermate syndrome”. 

Many of my customers have had success with siblings too - in fact, I sell more sibling pairs to people than I do solo pups. I have a customer in Arizona who bought six pups from one litter.  They are doing a fabulous job keeping her sheep safe in an extremely heavy predator load area that now has the Mexican Gray Wolf reintroduced to it.  Those littermates stay plenty busy, and she’s never lost a single head of sheep to predation.

Nuts and Bolts

Now, how do you do it?  What’s the secret to running siblings?  Here are some tips.  Its really not “more difficult” as some wrongly claim it to be, and I find rearing two or three pups together simultaneously much easier than just one pup.  Just be patient, consistent, and don’t over-expect too much, too soon.

1. Genders.  I’ve run all gender combinations here with high success therefore I never recommend one mix over another.  My only observation is that you’ll have eventual “disagreements” come up no matter what the gender combination you choose.  If you do run brother and sister, you should spay the female before she has her first cycle, or separate her from her brother during her first heat.  If you run two brothers, neutering will take the “edge” off of males, and prevent accidental breedings should a female come around, but its certainly not necessary.  Sister pairs can pack a terrific punch, and also get in spats between themselves just as much as the boys, sometimes even more.  Spaying them will prevent unwanted pregnancies and add to the calm.  A female in heat means you are less one guardian as she’ll need to be removed from her job, which in turn, puts more pressure on her brother, and leaves your flock less protected.  In short: there is not, in my opinion, a “better” or “best” combination.  Its a matter of personal preference.
2. Observe the entire litter.  Inevitably in a litter, pups will often pair off with one another.  Some will be buddies, others will have minor conflicts, and some will be loners.  If you can, observe the litter you are choosing pups from and ask the breeder what pups seem to like to stick together, play together, or go off on “expeditions” together.  Those are the ones you want to pick as a team.  A reputable and knowledgable breeder will give you good guidance and help in the picking process, and they’ll also support your decision to buy two.
3. Respect the pack.  Dogs are by nature, pack animals.  They are more secure and thrive in the company of other dogs, and their complex pack hierarchy is passed on from parent to pup. Puppies in a litter naturally grow up together bonding to one another, and what they learn from their parents and litter mates in the first several weeks of life molds them for what they will be in the future. Running sibling pairs reinforces this pack dynamic and thats part of what makes it work so well.  
4. Bringing home babies: easier with two.  When you remove a pup from a litter anywhere from 8-12 weeks of age, he will naturally be frightened, confused, and insecure for the first several hours or days, depending on how he was raised.  When you take two siblings at the same time, however, there is less stress when separated from the litter and parents.  They still have each other to lean on, and this bond only becomes stronger.  They also continue the education of the pack and their other siblings, with each other.  There is a continuity in ongoing education that would not happen if the pup leaves by itself.  You won’t be up all night with a howling pup when you bring home two; they’ll cuddle up and go to sleep together, just like normal.
5. Don’t separate!  One of the biggest errors I see first time sibling buyers make is that they bring home then immediately separate their sibling pups and try to keep them apart.  This defeats the whole purpose.  Don’t do it!  Let them sleep, eat, play, explore and work together.  Give equal attention: praise when they do good, correction when they make mistakes.  As time progresses and they age, you’ll begin to note personality differences.  This is normal, and use this opportunity to study and get to know your pups so you can better understand what makes them “tick”.
6. Apples and Oranges. You may have the slower, shyer male pup, and a more vocal, vigorous or feisty female. Or vice versa.  Don’t consider the quiet pup a failure.  The quiet one may be the pup who will hold back and stay closer to your sheep while the more inquisitive sibling ventures off to do perimeter patrol.  These dogs are amazingly smart and if you will be patient, you’ll see they will work as a team so that all is covered.  I never cease to be amazed how siblings will cover for one another.
7. Resolve conflicts.  Either free choice feed or make sure feed bowls are separate and apart far enough so one pup never “hogs” the meals to himself and you have food aggression issues.  If one pup starts to pick on the other, you need to nip it in the bud immediately; raising LGDs is not a “spectator sport”.  You get in there and let the instigator know the behavior is not correct.  A firm growl, or as I refer to it as, my “Mr. Miyagi grunt” (the Karate Kid star), and a firm grip on some neck skin will get any pup’s attention and a growl is usually more quickly understood by a dog than a “no”.  If you have a particularly rambunctious or stubborn pup, I will take one front leg and place it inside and through their collar, rendering them suddenly “three legged”.  A pup typically struggles a bit then settles and lies down.  As soon as the pup quiets, I take the leg back out of the collar and the message (90% of the time) has clearly gotten through to her to “settle down”.  I use this when verbal growling is not getting the desired response.
8. Train as a team.  Take them both out on perimeter patrol once they are old enough to tag along, following you along the fence line.  You are pack leader and their new parent.  Praise them for following you.  Be consistent, fair, patient, and calm.  Don’t expect them to cover a mile the first time around your place.  When you go into your sheep, take them both with you, and encourage them when they nuzzle, smell and lick their charges.  Again, do this together, not one at a time...there’s no need to separate.  Give equal praise and attention; equal correction and guidance.
9. Stay a team.  When its time for vet visits and vaccinations, take both in at the same time.  If for some reason you must remove the dogs from your flock (shearing time for example), remove both together and let them be in the barn together.  Big juicy beef soup bones are a bit hit around my ranch and can buy you lots of calm, and relax dogs who may be tense or worried from being removed from their charges.   Feed several feet or yards apart from each other again, to discourage food aggression.  When the shearing is done, let them both back in the sheep together.  Keep them together working as a team, as adults.  If you separate them, you are possibly setting up a scenario where one sibling will then begin digging out or jumping fence to join his brother or sister to bring things back to what he perceives as “the norm”.  When you rear your pups together, keep them together.  If you need to separate them to cover more area or increased livestock, the message is clear: you need to be adding more dogs to your operation, not separating the two you have!
10. Spay/Neuter.  You don’t need a tragic “oops” litters from a brother and sister.  Ask your trusted vet for advice as to when is the best time for spaying.  I usually advise my clients to run males intact and spay the female but perhaps you’ll neuter the male as well.  Again, refer to your vet.
11. Accept Differences.  No two sibling pairs will be exactly alike. You’ll see some who are glued to each other till death, never wanting to be a few feet apart.  I have two girls here who are absolutely inseparable.  In a fight, they are a force to reckon with and do great damage to an opponent.  Other pairs may wax more independent from one another, but still are not far from each other and back each other up. Example:  I have three very independent Pyrenees, my very first LGDs: brother Peso, and sisters Pinta and Petra.  They don’t “run” or stay together as a whole.  But several years ago, Peso and Pinta came to the rescue of their flailing sister Petra when she was down and fading in a vicious fight with a Kangal. I stood there unable to move in shock as I watched Peso and Pinta both take turns working as a team to dislodge the Kangal off of their fading sibling. Peso (a solid 150 pounds) would go off a distance then at high speed, body slam the Kangal, then Pinta would dive in and grab an ear or leg.  It finally ended with plenty of wounds but no casualties.  It was one of the worst dog fights I have ever had in my pack, but I will never forget the stunning display of intense partnership of those Pyrenees siblings coming to their sister’s rescue.  It added to my conviction of how valuable siblings can be to one another in a conflict.  
12. The Dynamic Duo.  As they evolve, grow and mature, if you bought two healthy specimens from proven parent stock with good, ingrained guarding instinct, a bonded, well bred pair of LGD siblings is nothing to trifle with.  They will earn their keep and then some when it comes to staving off predators from your valuable sheep.  The sibling girls who took down a dog twice their size and age built each other’s confidence up by being together and growing up together.  Honing skills like this does not need your training as much as it requires your respect, understanding and support AND most importantly, allowing it to happen.  Because truly, so much of what makes LGDs great is their innate guardian instinct.  Most of the time, what we as owners and operators need to do, is just “get out of the way” and let them do their job.  And by continuing and nurturing the pack dynamic with a sibling pair that works together as a team, you encourage and enable the learning and growing to continue.
13. No one’s perfect, all the time.  If one pup shows less inclination to guard sheep, don’t write him/her off.  Work with the pup and try to salvage his guarding role.  If he is just not cut out to be a sheep guardian, it may be you can put this pup on “farm yard duty” or guarding something else.  Situate him close or next to the pen of sheep where the other sibling is, so they are still in eye contact and relatively close to one another, thus preventing any separation anxiety.  Permanently separating siblings at an older age can be severely traumatic for them and can cause them to become depressed because their life-long littermate and workmate is suddenly gone. Don’t do it.  Work to keep them together, even if it means one pup is more of a family companion and guardian on your farm than flock protector.  Both dogs will be happier for it.  You may discover with delight that the non-sheep guardian has a penchant for fiercely keeping your hens, hogs or goats safe...or your children and home!  
14. As time goes by.....  When your sibling pair becomes 3-5 years old, think about bringing in another sibling pair of pups for them to rear up and help raise so that by the time they are in their golden years and slowing down, you will have two youngsters coming up, offering you continued protection.  Remember it takes a good year and a half or longer in some cases for a pup to mature and be able to confidently and safely be on his own guarding stock.  The maturation rate will still remain the same even for siblings run together, even though they are more of a force to be reckoned with.  Don’t wait until your dogs are too tired and old to serve as teachers and mentors.  Depending on the intensity of their work, some LGDs are “done in” sooner than others.  Truthfully gauge your dog’s health, stamina and condition and don’t wait till its too late to bring in new pups to train.

As they progress and age, sibling “teams” present a much stronger deterrent to predators at a much earlier stage in their growth because there is indeed, strength in numbers.  Where as one pup could be viewed as an easy meal for a hungry coyote pack, two pups will present much more of a formidable challenge.  As many of my customers have found out, a pair of pups can tackle much bigger problems than just one alone, and at a much earlier age.  Running siblings can be done successfully, and is something to consider especially for those experiencing heavy predator loads where one LGD simply is not enough.  Next time you add to your pack, or if you’re just venturing into LGD ownership for the first time, give serious consideration to bringing home a sibling pair instead of a solo pup, and stand by to be pleasantly surprised.

Haben sie ein Konzept? - Do You Have A Concept? Habig's Words of Wisdom from 1985 Molosser Magazin

So today I find myself once again thumbing through my decades old, tattered yet still so pertinent, cherished and rare copies of Molosser Magazin - the now out of print but much coveted "bible" of all those who loved and raised the molosser breeds, of course, including the Spanish Mastiff.  When the current Livestock Guardian Dog scene in America begins to depress me - something that sadly occurs with more and more frequency as of late - I turn to these magazines to rebuild my hope and focus.  They, along with my dearly beloved pack of 20 or so hounds - keep me going.

Being of German stock on my mother's side (old immigrants from Berlin to New York), some could say I'm prejudiced but no favoritism is going on here due to race and nationality.  Actually being half Spanish/Mexican and half German, makes for a fiery cross….! But no racial favoritism here, it is more of a statement to the lack of quality sources in America out there today, that I am forced to dredge up from 30 some years past, words of wisdom from a German professor and world renowned judge of molosser (mastiff) breeds all over the world.

I have touched on Habig's impact on my dog breeding and principles on this blog before.  For me it was and remains, one of my most favorite posts, as it caused me to go back, pause and think of who I owe thanks to for being who I am now.   Had I a lesser teacher/mentor - would just be another one of the many out there doing this half-assed, or doing it all wrong, without a concept, without integrity.

You know they say integrity is what you do when you think no one is watching…..

Consider these wry words, so true then, and even more true today, from Herr Habig in his 2/85 issue of Molosser Magazin:

"It is all so very simple: all you need in order to breed dogs is a bitch and a stud.  And everyone, who lets their bitch take part in the "act of love" with a stud, and then lets her bring up the result of this mating, namely the puppies, can call himself a breeder."

Acht!  And there you have, readers, in a capsule: the state of our nation here when it comes to LGDs.  Reckless, fly by night, ego driven backyard farmers who think bringing a litter of LGDs into the world is akin to hatching chicks, butcher hogs, sheep or goats.

It is anything but!  

But!  Don't tell that to these people.  After all, these are the "entitlement generation", the ones born often with silver spoons protruding from pouted lips, and a aura reeking of "I wanted that yesterday".  They inherited a farm or suddenly decided to chuck it all in New York City and bought 10 acres in Ohio.  They could get around in the Bronx, so they think they know it all in South Dakota or on some far flung plot in Canada - really the mindset crosses country boundaries.  

Yes, a concept can be a hinderance when you are breeding for the wrong reasons!

It is this mindset now pervading the hallowed halls of LGD breeds, that has every Tom, Dick and Lucy out there churning out $50-300.00 pups.  Most with either no vaccinations, or vaccinations too late…de-worming is a crap shoot…parents?  You MIGHT see one of them, and if its the dam, if you're lucky, she's a full LGD breed.  But more than not, she's the risky, second guess offspring of some vague parentage. Photos of grandparents are rarely available.  The bitch may have whelped the pups in the brush or sands of the outback.  Sometimes they are covered in fleas and ticks.  You can't catch them for a million dollars.  And oh, if you ask them WHY they are breeding LGDs, they usually can't tell you.

They have no concept.  No ground, no base.

High risk?  Unstable?  You bet.  Dependable?  Hardly.  Quality?  What is that? 

Concept?  What is a concept?!!!???!!!?

The people who have in the past two or so years, absolutely flooded the LGD market in the USA with everything from St. Pyrenees (St. Bernards crossed with Great Pyrenees); the bogus "Boz Shepherd" designer fighting breed from the nefarious dog fighter in Turkey, Akin Tulubas; LabraPyrs (Labradors crossed with Pyrenees); etc. etc. etc….these are the people I refer to when I quip, "send in the clowns".

If they are purebred 0r close to purebred LGDs - the parent stock is often scrawny, underfed, of poor quality, certainly not that which should be bred.  

But lets give the dogs a break!  How about the owners of these dogs?

They have, what Habig refers to as - NO CONCEPT.

No, they cannot be bothered with ethics - because making a quick "buck" off of this litter is all that matters.  The sole goal of most of these people can be summed up by a dollar sign.  Overnight, their club lamb or rambling ranch website morphs into an LGD breeder website.  And they have no - zero - credentials or experience to back it up.  They have turned LGDs into cash cows, and have demeaned them as a whole, doing it.

Honesty?  Transparency?  What are those concepts?  What do they hope to improve or produce or create or change?  

These concepts are usually as foreign to them as a D-mark or a franc. 

Sadly, things will continue to spiral downward in this country and afar at this rate until it bottoms out.

Something must be done - before too many of these breeds are ruined and gene pools permanently damaged in America.  

Instead of nodding like bobble headed dolls at the Facebook armchair experts expounding on their vast knowledge, people need to go beyond the shallow yak of Internet fakes and Facebook groups.  The yakkers out there with no credentials or experience or bonafides who are so much of the problem….they need to be ignored, shunned, banned!  And the panty waist 20 somethings need to be shook to their core and taught a lesson or two in integrity and honor - if they are not too warped and far gone to even teach!

And lets not let the much hyped Ray Coppinger, the "godfather" of the LGD in America, off the hook too soon either as the misguided sled dog maestro only succeeded in putting out bad information back in the '70's - embraced of course by our own US Dept. of Agriculture - that inevitably led to these dogs being raised wrong, run never in the right numbers, by shepherds who were more than happy to remain lazy and expect and allow their dogs to do all the work.  Time to dump his manifesto, and let in the new bloods who preach a more compassionate and responsible rearing and use of these magnificent dogs.  Its never too late for that!

No, things must change here, and fast.  I keep harping on it here and on my website, in hopes I can reach some out there with half a brain. Those are the ones who would have relished Molosser Magazin in its heyday, and who would have as I do, seen Habig as a hero for the molosser breeds.  Whether it be a Spanish Mastiff or a Fila or a Great Pyrenees - the glut of bad breeding and bad crosses must be frowned upon, not encouraged by buyers who grab up cheap pups and bad breeders with no concept, let alone integrity or honor. 

The bad breeders must be shamed.  They must be held feet to fire. 

Do you have the guts to do that?  Habig did.  I do it all the time!  

CONCEPT. So, what is YOUR concept?  Do you have one?  Will you ever have one?  

Or is it too much trouble?  Do you love these dogs?  Or is it just something you fill your hobby farm hours with, much like binge watching TV shows or going to the mall?

If you do not have a concept, you have no business breeding LGDs, and you'd best stay away from those of us who do cling to a concept and promote the ethical use, breeding and treatment of these great breeds.

Strength and Sense in Running Siblings

Cinco Deseos Ranch Gus and Clyde, Spanish Mastiff brothers that I bred.

They both guard sheep on a sprawling avocado ranch in California.

I started out in Livestock Guardian Dogs with three sibling Great Pyrenees who all came within a few days of each other…as I realized quickly, bringing one home was not enough. So I bought three, and after that, kept adding more sibling pairs of LGDs, both American raised and European imports.

You will see many people in many online forums and Facebook groups continually bad mouthing running sibling LGDs.  I will assure you, the people who wax negative about siblings only do so because they don't know how to raise them up successfully and they don't know what they are doing.  Their mentality is "if I can't do it then no one can". Better yet some are simply afraid of having two very large, powerful dogs - especially when their ability to understand them is constantly blocked by their negative mindsets and refusal to treat their dogs as a teammate - not a disposable tool.

Here on my ranch and my kennel operation, I probably sell more sibling pups to people than I do solo pups.  I've raised and kept 15 siblings myself. If it were truly as bad as some people claim it is, I would have never gotten past the first three.

This fall I will have a "nuts and bolts" article coming out in sheep! Magazine on how to successfully choose and raise and train sibling LGD pups to be great guardians.  I have done it so many times now that when I do occasionally raise a solo pup I find it to be twice the amount of work involved in raising a pair or more!

Guardian dogs were never meant to be used alone.  They are not run alone in Europe.  In Spain, they have a saying: You keep adding LGDs until you stop losing stock.  When you stop losing stock, you know you have enough dogs.  Hence you see respected shepherds and breeders such as Gregorio Fidalgo Tejedor and his wife of Abelgas/Ganadaria Fial running huge packs of Mastin Espanol in their sheep, many wearing the carlanca, or spiked protective collar.

Ganadaria Fial: The famous Abelgas dogs being run in a large pack in Spain.

Americans have been slow to catch on to this.  When I began raising LGDs in 2009 unlike others I started right out of the box building a large pack to guard the 30 plus goats I had at the time.  I noted hardly anyone else was doing this and my accolades about pack advantages with LGDs fell on mostly deaf ears.  Now, people are slowly waking up to the advantages of running multiple dogs.  The challenge seems to be to get them to understand how to successfully run a pack of dogs - it is not easy, and the dynamic never stays the same.  

 Count the dogs that Abelgas runs.  It's why he has minimal losses of sheep.

I own several imported pups from some of the dogs pictured in these photos.

Unfortunately in America, the entire LGD 'phenomenon' got off to a bad start with a lot of wrongful advice from a PhD sled dog expert running the first LGD tests and experiments, and publishing his findings.  Not knowing better, his findings became canon amongst ranchers, farmers and other "degreed types", and have probably contributed to more failures with these great breeds here in the states than anything else.  Running siblings or dogs in the right numbers was never discussed, or was frowned upon at the most in these early studies, and this is why you have so many failed LGDs out there - actually is the owners who failed to understand and support the dogs.  Running LGDs in the right numbers was something I started and wrote about some years ago.  It was like talking to a wall in the beginning as most people ignored what I was saying and promoting.  Now, there seems to be a little more receptive audience as people see how successful it is when you "dog up" with the right number of LGDs.  No thanks to Ray Coppinger and his early works, which did not discuss dog numbers in depth, again, a whole continent here has gotten off to a bad start and off on the wrong foot with these wonderful dogs.  

But the Coppinger matter is another post for another time.  

The bottom line is: the next time you read or hear someone claiming that running or holding back sibling pairs of LGDs is a big mistake, just direct them to this post.  We can always hope they become enlightened…..but alas, some people these days are beyond salvation!

Above photos: Siblings all, including two chicken guarding Spanish Mastiffs from my "A Litter"; and "The Mafia Brothers" Pak and Pala, two of my most famous and formidable guardians and stud dogs. The two girls at the bottom photo are half Spanish Mastiff sisters coming on 3 years old and have gone to a new home in Texas to guard goats.  They are a team, and inseparable, and pack an incredibly powerful punch.

ORTROS

http://mastinesibericos.es/objetivos-del-grupo-ortros/

A group dedicated to the preservation and promotion of the working Spanish Mastiff, this website is in Spanish, but a valuable resource.

Not all working Spanish Mastiffs are thin, lean and of little skin and bone, in spite of what some people claim.  Even in Spain there are factions fighting over what is the "true" Mastin Espanol.

Further adding to the arguments out there, some of my best guardians have come from what are considered show lines.  Heavier, loose skin - yet tenacious, protective and nurturing with my livestock.  What too many people fail to take into consideration is HOW the dogs are raised.  It is not all physical conformation that counts!  What is in the dog's mind is just as important.  You want stability, intelligence, perception and heart.  Without these attributes, the dog is just a dog.

Amaya Dartibo, known as "Baby Pia".  From a non-working line of SM in the Czech Republic, this huge, heavy girl is no less a guardian that my pure working lines.  She was raised to be a guardian.

The rearing of the pup is just as important as its pedigree.

Forget the Old Dogs: Teach the Rancher New Tricks

Forget the Old Dogs: Teach the Rancher New Tricks

Brenda M. Negri

Cinco Deseos Ranch Livestock Guardian Dogs

www.lgdnevada.com

Copyright 2015

Only the USDA could be so stupid as to leave out the Spanish Mastiff - the biggest Livestock Guardian Dog breed there is - 

in their much touted "research" on "bigger LGD breeds".  

"You can't teach an old dog new tricks" --- Old American Proverb

In 2013 Wildlife Services (WS), a branch of the US Department of Agriculture typically tasked with trapping, shooting and otherwise doing away with “problem” apex predators, began a multi-year study and research project testing different breeds of Livestock Guardian Dogs on select farms and ranches in Idaho and Montana.  The “testing” of breeds of dogs not typically in use here, was to find out if indeed, “bigger was better”.  

In the USA, Livestock Guardian Dog (LGD) breeds usually found guarding flocks and herds are the Great Pyrenees, Akbash, Komodor, Anatolian Shepherd and Maremma.  Although these breeds are no slouch in the size department – there are in fact Great Pyrenees out there tipping the scales at 200 + pounds – the USDA’s thoughts were that for some reason, these traditional breeds were no longer “cutting the mustard” in battling predation by larger predators such as wolves, bear and lion.

Since re-introduction efforts, the gray wolf population, on an up and down comeback, was now posing more of a threat to the traditionally used and supposedly “smaller” LGD breeds, and reports were coming in of guardian dogs being killed by wolf packs.  So, the USDA, thinking solely in terms of finding “better and bigger” breeds, imported Cao de Gado Transmontanos, a Portuguese breed; the Kangal, from Turkey, and the Karakachan from Bulgaria.

So why do I, a Great Basin rancher who raises LGDs full time, including the Spanish Mastiff that literally dwarfs the “bigger” breeds the USDA is presently “testing”, have a huge problem with this seemingly noble effort?

The issue with the USDA’s program is they left one key factor out of the equation: training the rancher.

What the USDA should be doing is not “testing” breeds we already know work.  Come on guys, they've been working for centuries in their respective countries!  The government paper shufflers should be training the rancher on using LGDs correctly and using them in adequate, that is ENOUGH - numbers. If those two are in place, breeds make some difference…yes, but overall, if run correctly, don’t matter as much as the USDA would like you to think.

Would you like me to repeat that?  Sure.

Lets look at the rancher.  Although many commercial sheep producers have been running guardian dogs for generations in the US, you also have an explosion in “back to the land” hobby farmers and small “boutique” ranchers in the last decade who are new - not just to livestock and farming - but LGDs as well.  They buy their flock of sheep, put them out in the pasture without doing any research on the local predator load and types that may be habituating the area, and voila!  Instant train wreck as Joe Farmer steps out one morning to find half his lamb crop either missing or dead.  So he runs out and buys an LGD pup, plops it in the field, and walks off, figuring “all is well” now.  No, not hardly. 

The correct rearing and training of LGDs is a far more complex effort than sadly, has typically been pontificated on Internet forums and blogs.  Socialization of the dogs is paramount to ensure they can be handled and don’t pose a threat to their owner or the public.  These breeds interact with their shepherds in Europe , unlike in the US where many new ranchers think the dogs are supposed to work on auto-pilot, and take little care, work or interaction.

Unfortunately the USDA does not have a program for training farmers and ranchers on the correct and responsible use of these dogs.  In my own experience and in my consulting, I find that 90% of LGD “problems” or “inadequacies” are human caused or human error, not the dogs.  And there is an increasing LGD use failure rate: one need only visit the many shelters and rescues who are overloaded with abandoned LGDs of all breeds – yes, even the “new” breeds the USDA has earmarked as “our saviors”.  They're showing up in rescue, too.

LGDs were not meant to be ran alone, but too many American farmers do just that. 

Part of the pack Abelgas/Ganadaria Fial runs in Spain, where the smart shepherds understand there are strength in numbers.  

Most Americans have not caught on to that yet.

In Spain, sheep producers regularly run anywhere from 6 to 20 Spanish Mastiffs with their huge bands of sheep in Iberian wolf country, and suffer very few losses, because they run their LGDs in a pack. (They also arm them with protective collars, something Americans are only recently catching on to). The advantages to running LGDs in a pack, and pack rearing LGD pups are plenty: the pups get a schooling no human could give them, are more self confident, savvy and capable at an earlier age.   There is strength in numbers, and less opportunity for a large predator to pressure the guardians.  Its a win/win when ranchers run LGDs in packs: usually no dogs are lost, and the predators move on to easier pickings elsewhere. If you are running 8 dogs, guess what?  The breed does not matter as much as the quality of each animal, and how they were raised.  If they are a cohesive pack of strong, good dogs from quality stock, working well together, who were brought up right, then you have success whether Great Pyrenees, Kangal, Kuvasz or Komodor.

Now on to the breeds.  Granted, LGD breeds all have similarities to each other, and differences.  Temperament, stamina, guarding style - all these plus the breed size, factor in.  

As my previous post discussed, many Americans choose the wrong breed to work on their farm or ranch.  They go with what's popular instead of really figuring out what it is that would best suit their situation.  

The problem I have with the USDA picking of all things, the Kangal, is plenty.  The Kangal in its pure state can be a very complex dog (I used to raise them), and not for the faint of heart.  Its the last thing you toss to a newbie, unless as my previous post indicated, you buy from show ring floozy with watered down, gentrified dogs - and there are a ton of them out there…in many breeds!

Instead of thinking about that, however, the good old US Government used this as an excuse to grease some political wheels and brought over, no doubt, the only Turkish "LGD expert" in Turkey who claims LGDs should "not be fed in the camp" (tell that to all the other shepherds who do that and do just fine, thank you).  To add insult to injury, the USDA picked one of the most nefarious, ill-regarded Kangal breeders in the USA to pimp their dogs out…a woman who regularly raised her dogs in cages and kennels with no livestock, no less.  Oh, but she went to Turkey a few times.  So she MUST be an expert.

The other breeds that the USDA "introduced" here?  Honestly, I don't think any of these "new" breeds will be "better" than anything already working here.  It will all depend on the owner and their abilities as to whether they succeed - or fail.  My point being?  You can put the biggest and the best of anything in the hands of an idiot and it will fail.  

And size?  Please.  None of these "new breeds" they are touting are as big as the Spanish Mastiff, and there are some Pyrenean Mastiffs out there who dwarf them as well.  I've yet to see a Karakachan that equals in size my two Maremma/Anatolian cross "Mafia Brothers", Pak and Pala….and I don't expect to!

Not so small after all: Pak, half Maremma, half Anatolian, 34"  (86 cm) at the shoulder.

In fact, one of the biggest dogs I ever bred here was (are you ready for this?) not a purebred Kangal, nope, but a half Kangal.  His mother was a purebred Kangal, and his dad was the previously pictured male dog, Pak.  Elk stood 37 inches (94 cm) at the shoulder and could run like a freight train.  I've yet to see a photo of a Cao de Gado Transmontano that even comes this close to "big".

Another "small" dog I bred here at Cinco Deseos Ranch.

Elk, half Kangal, 1/4 Maremma, 1/4 Anatolian. Almost as big as the heifers.  

LGDs should not be predator killers nor should they be sacrificial lambs to wolf packs, either. They should be deterrents to predation.  It takes more than just the right breed to make a good LGD team.  It takes YOU the owner and some savvy, responsible handling and training.

Sadly, the USDA failed to take these matters in consideration and the “bigger breed testing” is pretty much window dressing.  

Especially when the fools at USDA left out the biggest LGD breed of all:

Courtesy of Hollywood Spanish Actor, David Vega.  No photoshopping.  Just your average "tiny" Spanish Mastiff.  "Atila de Basillon from the breeder 'De Basillon' in Galicia (Celtic Spain).

400 pounds ( 182 kg) of big: Clyde and Gus, Spanish Mastiffs I bred, owned by Debra Cummings, California

Why More Farmers Should Choose a Spanish Mastiff

Some 20 years ago (some might say more, some less) as Livestock Guardian Dogs gained in use and popularity in the USA, three of the fastest rising breed "stars" were based out of Turkey: the Akbash, the Anatolian Shepherd, and more recently, the Kangal.  Many people on the Internet try to claim that the Anatolian and Kangal are one and the same; they are not. The Kangal Dog is the national dog of Turkey, and don't try to engage a Turk in an argument over that fact any time soon; you'll lose.

What these short haired Turkish breeds share in common is a penchant for ranging far from their flocks to either hunt down predators or do perimeter patrol.  Sometimes in many instances, that perimeter patrol put dogs miles away from their sheep or goats.  Although this type of guarding in Turkey is acceptable as most shepherds there do not run stock under fence, in America, it becomes something of a problem when dogs stray too far from where they are supposed to be.  

Kangals, a breed I once owned and raised, are extremely bright and sharp, sometimes more than their owners, and can be an extremely complex dog, prone to intensity (that is, the real working lines who have not been watered down by misguided and uber politically motivated Kangal Dog Club of American gentrification efforts).  They never have been a "beginner's" type of LGD, and sadly now, no thanks to wannabe-farmer types and elitist breeders trying to cash in on the dog's (once) rarity and mystique, are regularly showing up in rescues and shelters because they were a train wreck in the hands of an owner who didn't get prepped by the breeder, or overstepped his capacity to handle a dog like the Kangal.  Likewise, the Akbash can be a sharp dog, not fond of staying still for long periods of time.  Some people would even call them hyper.  They are a favorite of many large commercial sheepmen who run on public lands and use little if any fence, and depend on Peruvian herders to keep their sheep moving and grazing where they should be.

In those types of set ups the farther ranging breeds of LGDs are not an issue.  They can work well - and usually but not always, do. In that vein, its somewhat laughable that the USDA Wildlife Services is only now "testing" the Kangal breed on farms when savvier Kangal breeders can tell you there's no need to "test" a breed that's been proven for generations to work.  Oh, and by the way, has been already working here in the USA for well over a decade, thank you.  But you know those government types (insert your favorite snide remarks here).

But let's look at the explosion of "back to the farm" hobby ranchers, homesteaders and farmers, plying their organic veggies, slaving behind their plows, harvesting their eggs and lambs and goat kids on smaller acreage ranging from 2 to 100 acres, all usually fenced to some degree.  Not all of them come from an agriculture background, either; in fact many are first timers.  Here is where the rubber meets the road in terms of what worked in Turkey, may not fare so well here with these folks.  Smaller acreage means less land to roam over and patrol, and for many Turkish breeds, this adds up to instant boredom and frustration.

I peruse many LGD related forums and sites on the Internet and am continually struck by the recurring theme of many woe be gone farmers: their Kangal/Akbash/Anatolian won't stay put.  It gets out all the time.  It's down the road, five miles, checking on neighbor's sheep.  It's chasing a pack of coyotes back into the forest.  It's jumping the fence and going over to fight with the neighbor's dogs.  The problem with this is that the dogs are not staying put with their charges because they are really built for bigger, unfenced acreage.  

And predators pick up on that quickly, and soon steal in behind the long gone roving Turkish dervishes, and feast on goat or lamb that has been left unattended by roaming guardian dogs.  What worked in Turkey may work here on open range operations, but let's not pull any punches: a good percentage of people in the USA are running the wrong kinds of dogs on their operations.

I'm not inferring the Turkish breeds are a write off; not hardly.  But give it thought.  A breed that is inclined to want to not only patrol but explore vast acreage, is probably not the best choice for Joe Hobby Farmer on his ten acre spread.  Is it?

Enter the solution: the Spanish Mastiff. 

Right smack in the middle, where they belong: Gus and Clyde, two SM brothers I bred, guarding Debra Cumming's flock and avocado orchard in California.

Although capable of traveling for miles in Spain with massive flocks of sheep - transhumancia as it is referred to - what I continually note is that the Mastin Espanol is invariably where he is supposed to be: smack dab in the middle of the sheep.  And in Spain, there are typically somewhere between eight and twenty dogs traveling along guarding the sheep.  No one-dog operations there.  The wise saying from the Spaniards is, "You know you have enough dogs when you stop losing livestock".  Hardly the American theme where most people in the states, started off on the wrong foot by only using one dog instead of two, three or more, to begin with.

A much more lethargic, slower breed, yet probably one of the most powerful LGDs in the world, the Spanish Mastiff is more content to stay near its livestock, not two miles down the road.  Too many people mistake "big" for "lazy" and think this breed is incapable of sudden bursts of speed or agility.  Oh, so wrong!  They are more than capable of running at high speeds and are surprisingly agile for all that loose skin and weight.  Under all that skin is a lot of big bone and muscle.  If one of these big guys hits you while on the run, there will be no mistaking it for a light breeze.

He can run, but he can't hide: Gus and Clyde show off their form.

The Spanish Mastiff prefers to stick closer to his stock.  He's more of a wise, knowing, patient observer and assessor; he will lay there and size things up.  If it merits his going over there to check it out, he will; if not, he will bide his time.  Sleeping giants sometimes are best left alone; when a Spanish Mastiff DOES get up and go after a threat or predator, its all over but the crying.  Few breeds pack the wallop or power of these dogs.  But, they are not bloodthirsty fighters.  I had a Kangal who killed stray dogs and tried to kill - and almost did - one of my Pyrenees in a horrid fight.  She would practically blank out and go into overdrive mode - and was impossible or extremely difficult to stop.  Not exactly what you call low risk.

Not so the SM.  They will usually only take it as far as necessary, then back off.  I watched my huge red male Patron once pick up one of my 150 pound Maremma/Anatolian studs by the neck and just lay him flat on his back.  In a nano-second.  Patron had had enough of the pestering and decided right then to set the record straight; from that day on, the other male left him alone.  

So as you peruse the many LGD breeds out there, do some serious introspection on not just what you like in terms of looks, but what you are actually capable of responsibly owning AND handling.  SM are not high strung, hyperactive, edgy or intense.  They are devoted, aloof to some degree, but amicable and gracious - lion like in stature and movement.  They don't need to prove anything.  Look at your farm or ranch and your set up.  Do you really need hyper, high strung, pacing, lean, mean LGDs looking for an excuse to get out and go down the road? Do you really need to buy a liability in the making from the guy who is borderline dog fighter with his "killing machine" Turkish crosses?  Or is it time you owned up to what you really need is something that will stick around, be there when you need it, and be perhaps the most trustworthy, steadfast guardian you can ever own.  Something that doesn't need to bare its fangs or gnash teeth and froth as it charges the fence line to make a statement; usually all my Spanish Mastiffs need to do is stand up or enter an area or room, and they instantly command respect, awe and admiration…...

No worries, no hurries, Gus and Clyde bring up the rear.